The Spinner Rack Episode Three: Rick and Marvel Comics

Thomas: 0:02

Multiverse Tonight presents the Spinner Rack Rick Stacey's Life in Comics and now here's your host. Hey everyone and welcome to Episode 3 of the Spinner Rack. And of course, your host, thomas Townley, and besides me is the incomparable Rick Stacey. Hi, rick.

Rick: 0:27

Hey, hi, thanks for having me on.

Thomas: 0:29

Yeah, that's great We've had a brief hiatus. Life gets in the way.

Rick: 0:38

Sure.

Thomas: 0:41

I spent most of my July working towards I'm supposed to be getting a surgery at some point. Oh my yeah, I'm supposed to be getting a hemorrhoid removed. And I went to the surgeon and the surgeon said you gotta go see your cardiologist, okay. Went to the cardiologist, the cardiologist wants me to have a stress test. Said, okay, got to the day of the stress test, the hospital calls and says we'll have to put you on hold. The insurance doesn't want to pay for it. Your cardiologist is fighting with the insurance. It's like God.

Rick: 1:24

That almost sounds like you're starting a joke. I know you're not, but it's like. Well, I went to buy a hemorrhoid doctor and a cardiologist and we all walked into a bar and there was a talking horse and what have you?

Thomas: 1:35

So how has life been on your end?

Rick: 1:39

On my end. I'm sitting on it right now Inside better than yours, I think. In the end it's all okay. Things have been good. Things have been very, very busy. But with the summer shows Smallville, woodstock hanging up this weekend, handfuls of others, and I think I've got one more September in Lawrence, then I'll go on to hiatus with shows and go back to the commissioned art world, and I usually do that every fall from September-ish to Thanksgiving. I stopped till the holidays are over and I rejoined the workforce and around Super Bowl time. Yeah, so busy, busy but good. The heat has been a contributor. It slowed things down and it's kind of a bummer, but I got fall fever.

Thomas: 2:35

Yeah, so do I. Well, unfortunately, in the world of retail, fall comes right before right. Early there They've already started setting the Halloween candies and a few weeks will start setting Christmas.

Rick: 2:51

Yeah, I spent seven years with Sears back in the day, and I remember by September 22, all the Sears stores for Kansas and Missouri had to be fully Christmas-tized. That's what they called it back then too.

Thomas: 3:09

And so I have one little news item before we get into our main topic today. Here's Jeff Smith, a beloved forest parpular in the comic Bone suffered a heart attack yesterday. No yes, he's cancelling his book tour for the remainder of the year. This was shared by his wife on Instagram. Quote Jeff Smith is recovering from cardiac arrest which he suffered on Sunday. There will be a long road to recovery so, regrettably, williams cance the remainder of this book tour this year, and so that was shared on the site formerly known as Twitter. We wish Jeff good health.

Rick: 3:53

Yep absolutely.

Thomas: 3:56

Have you had an interaction with Jeff in the past?

Rick: 3:59

I've never met the man. I know that he does great stuff. I love Bone and when my son was a teenager he used to collect Bone. That was his favorite comic book.

Thomas: 4:09

I've never been to Bone. Of course, our mutual friend Andrew Holland, one of his favorites was Bone, so you know. Again, we wish him the best of health.

Rick: 4:19

Absolutely.

Thomas: 4:21

Anyway, onto our main subject today, that would be Marvel Comics. That's quite the intro. The House of Ideas, yeah, of course. So why don't you set the stage? Tell us about your first interaction with Marvel?

Rick: 4:43

Well, my first interaction with Marvel was around puberty when I was out growing DC comics and looking towards life ahead. Preteen years, girls and Marvel. Marvel spoke to a growing up base of readers who were transitioning out of DC because we were just out growing them. I mean, we love Superman and Batman and Justice League and what have you, but it seemed to be tepid by comparison to the really explosive busy pages. That took me three times the time to read in Marvel comics as it did the fine fables over at DC. Marvel comics were busy comics. They were logos and colors and notes and footnotes and editors, scribes and etc. Etc. And it would take me much more time to enjoy that book for 12 cents than to read through a DC. So at that point I thought I, like Spider-Man. Spider-man was in his individual issues back then, low numbers and my individual. I meant low numbers and he was an upperclassman to me. So Parker was a freshman or sophomore in high school. I was just a couple of years behind him. With that being said, the character and the explosive imagination of Steve Ditko drew me in and attracted me not only as a reader but as a potential artist. So Spidey helped drag me in the FF under Kirby's creativity and Toodle-Itch drugged me into Marvel, even if farther Then there was Don Heck, ultimately Jean Holand, wally Wood, etc. Etc. So I kind of graduated from DC and moved rapidly like a boat train into Marvel. I thought those are the kind of skill sets I want to have. That transition with Neil Adams was so popular over DC because then I was being a Gemini. Both of me are Gemini. I liked them both at the same time. But over at Marvel I thought this is what I want to do. I want to work for the House of Ideas. I want to partner with Stan Lee, the Marvel Bullpen, and spend the next 35 years of my life working for them.

Thomas: 7:10

And so what was your favorite Marvel comic growing up?

Rick: 7:15

Well, it's hard to say Spidey was my priority, but when I grabbed my bundle every Tuesday I believe it was every two weeks, maybe a monthly, and they were 12 cents a piece that bundle would come home stacked like this it was a big Mac and I would start with Spidey, then the FF, then the Avengers, and, even though this was the Vietnam era, I love the Sergeant Fury and the Howling Commandos. I read all the superhero books and all the western books too, but Spidey and the FF were my half-to-haves and I couldn't go to bed that night until I read them both.

Thomas: 7:54

That's great. Now, of course, you grew up to be an artist yourself. When did you first work with Marvel?

Rick: 8:03

You know it's interesting. I interviewed with them in 1970. I had an appointment with Stan. I told the story about going to New York after high school and when I went to Marvel's there was no Stan, even though I had a bona fide appointment, and there was Roy Thomas and a few people and it was more of a. It looked like Animal House inside the offices. It was not what I thought Marvel Comics would look like. But Roy was very quick and brisk with me and sent me on my merry way and I must have been crestfallen because Marie Severin said hey, kid, come here, let's see your drawings. Not a portfolio. I had no real preparation because I didn't know to have a preparation. I just took handfuls and handfuls of fan art and illustrations and published comic strip I created here in the Kansas City area there was a cowboy strip called the Shawnee Kid. Anyway, having said that, marie was very open and kind to me and she helped me keep my interests in Marvel alive. So as I became a commercial artist and advertising artist and a fan artist that's what they call this in fandom, if you were a fan of the big two, as I was and I moved into doing comic reader and comics journal and Byers Guide and all this stuff, but my goal was to work for DC or Marvel and my inclinations then were to keep pursuing Marvel, I think because they were so difficult. It's rather a long-winded answer. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but, yeah, keep going. All right, do that, thank you. When I was breaking ground with the big two because I'd done a lot of stuff that wasn't big two and it paid quite well or it did well for exposure I was doing work samples for DC. And I might've told you the story about Jim Acheter seeing me crest fallen after my interview with Joe Orlando.

Thomas: 10:17

I think, so I think we covered that.

Rick: 10:21

Joe Orlando was looking for national talent for DC. He went to all the big cons, like Chicago con. Having said that, I stood in line with everybody else. This is probably my fifth or sixth Chicago con in a row to show my portfolio to anybody, as I saw Joe being besieged by people lined up at the Ramada O'Hare to show a portfolio, but he was overwhelmed with work.

Thomas: 10:48

I got to the line and I said how about if I take you to?

Rick: 10:50

breakfast tomorrow morning and show you my samples. And he thought that was a better venue than standing there sweating with everybody else. The next day I met him at the little restaurant at the Ramada, ordered breakfast and I pulled my samples out and he saw samples I had done. Just for this gig I did an eight page super morning that takes him from the death of Maun Fawcant into a raging flight into space. Now that he's alone and orphaned, it again propels him into a kryptonite something or other and he ends up having passed out in the midst of space. He is awakened in the future on a satellite by Diana Prince, who passed his face, says Clark, wake up, clark wake up, cal, wake up. And this young man does wake up and she explains to him that he's in the future, that he is ill from kryptonite poisoning and she knows that he's just lost his parents because it's history. In the conversation he said I give this up. I couldn't say it by parents. It's almost a little bit Peter Parker with Uncle Ben. But she said well, that's fine if you give up. You give up because you've done all that you can or you recommit. And he said no, I'll never be super boy again. And then she says why don't you choose Superman, go back and be a man. And, as she says, this other JLA members crowd behind her and stuff, and we see that close that chapter, that story, which is very compelling, I thought, because that gives you a real official christening to Superman. That doesn't happen. From Lois naming him, diana Print, wonder Woman named him, and Orlando is looking at this. He really loves this, he's really really enchanted by this and he says it's fantastic storytelling, a great idea. And I thought here we go right between the tomato juice and the pancakes and the coffee. We're gonna make a deal. And he said let me ask you a question how old are you? And I said I'm 26,. And he said, oh, and he pushed the drawings all back at me, big two, blibrous. The board pushed it back and I said there's a problem with the work. It was no, the work's quite nice, but you're 26, that means you've peaked out. You won't ever get any better. And I was crestfallen by that and, as opposed to wanting to argue the point, I'd been a corporate art director for a few years and I thought this is not worth an exchange of words, because what the man said is what do you feel? And so I told him Thank you, I wish things were different. I wanted to work for DC and I wanted to score this gig. And he said you know, rick, you're handling this very well. So I thanked him and I said well, I got back around to corporate America and I know what's worth falling on your sword for and what you shouldn't fall on your sword for. And he thanked me very kindly and I paid the bill. I got up and I stacked my work and I walked out of the restaurant down the hall heading to the dealer's room in the big open areas for the rest of Chicago. And there's a stairwell right by the entry to the dealer's room and a big, tall, lanky guy standing talking and a younger guy sitting listening on the stairs. And the big guy was somebody I'd shown work to for years. He said keep it up, go back, do this, do that, to play KB. It was Jim Shooter. And Shooter said let's what's why, the longer face? I told him. He said I don't pay attention to him. You're not too old. You're finer this year that you're coming right along, you'll be scoring work. And the young fellow next to him, closer to my age, said let me see your stuff. And I did so. I showed him my work and this young man said this is great. And he said I'm doing some work for Marvel now. I'm doing some Daredevil and Spider-Man, some other stuff. I thought that's good and we exchanged names. I told him I was Rick Stacey. He told me he was Frank Miller.

Thomas: 15:10

Oh.

Rick: 15:11

Yes, and the three of us talked back and forth and had the greatest of times talking back and forth. Now, having said that, shooter looked at me and he said you know what I'm going to give you? I'm going to give you. Excuse me, that was me. I think I drank my diet Pepsi too fast. He said I'm going to give you a shot and he didn't shoot me, but he said here's my card and we get back to our civil lives. Get ahold of me and I will send you a tryout. And so I did. I got back and he sent me an adventure script and with that I took my first steps into what I thought was Marvel done, assembled.

Thomas: 15:57

Well, that's very, very cool. Now, of course, when you know so, when did what was your first long, long term gig with Marvel?

Rick: 16:09

Never was the long term gig with never was a long term gig. Never was a long term gig with Marvel. I did some stuff for them. There was never any long term commitment, with the exception of the story that transitions from my Avengers pages to Jim said it'd be a letter a month later saying hey, rick, thanks for the samples, you're not close, you're not even in the ballpark, let's forget the whole thing. It may say let's forget the whole damn thing. I don't know. Sharon's got the letter filed away someplace. This was 83. Okay, a3. I'm going to show in Wichita. Dick Giordano is there, gil Kane is there, some kid trying to break into comics named Mark Wade is there, the late Richard Corbin and Jens Trinad and Dick is. I've done Dixon 70 and Dick's hanging around my table. He says what do you got? I said well, these are the pages I did Xerox's for shooter and he bounced them back and he told me no way. Jose and Dick looked at this. He said well, what's good to me? And while Dick's thumbing through the Xerox as I take a felt set marker and all the pictures of vision. That was the primary character, the adventure story that was doing the vision, I drew little bad ears on a scalp. This came and Dick said nice stuff, what do you want to do for us? I might have related that earlier in the podcast to you. That's when I started at DC, which means you get it at one place and with the people that go back and forth and editorial jobs from DC to Marvel to Marvel to DC, you build reputations. So one of my DC pals was at Marvel, mindy Newell, who worked for DC and at the same time I started wrote Catwoman, wrote lots of stuff, she became an editor and then she was swept away by Marvel and started editing their books and I started doing stuff for them. I did a frontage piece for a Hulk magazine back in the black and white days. I have no idea if that came to fruition because it's been 50 years, 20 years, whatever. Mindy called me one day and she said we got a chance for somebody that's real flexible to get in and get some work. Okay, min, what's that? And she said we just picked up the license through Marvel for the Disney afternoon. Can you go on model? And I said yeah, I can draw on model because I've been doing superheroes for DC, then doing looney tunes and tiny tunes. So I started doing a lot of Darkwing Duck for Disney under Marvel's umbrella and writing it. And as we forged forward on that, mindy calls me one day and she said you know, can you do superheroes? I said, mindy, I've been doing superheroes since I was. She said I thought so. I thought so she goes. We've got a chance because the regular artist for the Spider-Man Adventures, the tie-in to the cartoon yeah, yeah, it's really late. Can you pick up Spider-Man? I said in a heartbeat. I knocked out two pages of samples and sent them to her. She loved them, sent me the script and I did Spider-Man. So I did Spider-Man and I was building a relationship with Marvel as to give him a book of what, if and since he could draw superheroes and draw cartoons, he could do some of the funny mad magazine stuff and I did that. Then there were other bits and pieces, but no long running series. But I was still with Marvel because, as I would do shows or Stan was, I knew everybody and Stan or the people at the shows would ask me to MC his Q&A sessions or to MC his autograph sessions and I'd stand up at the stage and venture back and forth with Stan and manage the crowd and stuff and I felt to be established somewhat as an artist a different way with Marvel, but I felt like I was a part of the group there. I'd been on a first day basis with Stan since 1975.

Thomas: 20:24

So let's highlight your interactions with Stan there. Of course, stan's right behind me and the action figure right there of that signature action figure right there. It's hard to see. Oh, okay, I'm reflecting everything, but tell me about your interactions with Stan, okay.

Rick: 20:48

And I will tell you, I don't know if we can do this on the podcast. I'm having a little bit of audio problem here. Is there a way I can just bring my headset in and plug my mic in?

Thomas: 20:56

Yeah, we can pause.

Rick: 20:57

You can pause for a minute. You can do some fill time. You can sing something if you want. This just takes a second. There we give a little twist and off we go.

Thomas: 21:06

There we go.

Rick: 21:07

All right, that's easier on the old voice. Thank you, okay.

Thomas: 21:10

All right. So we were segwaying into talking about your actions with Stan Lee.

Rick: 21:17

The very first show I ever did was in April of 75. And that's because of Buddy. Mind said hey, you know, johnson County Community College has this event called Fool Kong I never knew that conventions. And he said it's kind of a maker's deal and artists and what have you. And so here at this really nice community college, and you see, why don't you get a table there? Why don't you take your markers and take some paper and do some sketches and see me sell them? So I thought, okay, that's fine, I would do just that. So I booked a table, my wife went with me and I started doing color sketches for five bucks a shot and I would do black and white for 350. And, man, I was busy from the moment I sat down. So I told my wife, sharon, I said you write, you write that what I'm supposed to draw, you get the money for it and then you tell me, because I'm pretty fast and I'll do the stuff. She said, okay, okay. So I started that I'm doing drawings, I'm doing Superman, I'm doing Batman, I'm doing all the different characters that people requested from memory, because there was no reference I could have at that point and I said, okay, we're going pretty good here, honey, what's next on my list? And she said I can't read my writing. And I said you've got to be able to read your writing, so I thought I can't read this. I said, well, what is it? And she said it's either Howard the Hulk or the incredible duck. And I thought, okay, we need to get a handle on this. But through a large part of the afternoon there's like some 11 year old kid just hanging at the table all day watching this and I'm thinking, okay, maybe he wants to learn to draw, maybe he, like me, has never seen this kind of outlet for comic books before. And he just stayed all day and I thought, well, that's fine, I just kept drawing and whisking through this and at the end of the day his dad came together and his dad said thank you for being so patient with him. He's a big fan, he loves comics, he wants to draw. Blah, blah, blah.

Thomas: 23:27

I said okay.

Rick: 23:27

I was like that too when I was a kid and he said my son Tiger that's his name, tiger Rohold. I remember that to this day he's going to have a big birthday party next month. I thought, well, swell, okay, I don't know him well enough to buy him anything but swell. And he said I'm going to give him the gift you want, so I'm going to give him a one day comic con. I thought that's kind of neat. He said it's going to be a big mall in Minnesota, minneapolis. I said, well, that's even all the needer. And he said I've got a guest coming for the day. It's Stan Lee. And I went how many, how many, how many, how many. I thought that was fantastic. And he said you were very patient with him. Do you want to be the guest artist for the day? And boy, I tell you, yeah, I couldn't miss that for a zillion bucks. So, yes, he got me squared away to stay up there overnight. Sure, and I left on a Friday. The show is Saturday. I've got pictures someplace I can send to you. It's kind of fun as he stand in his, in his glory Not that he wasn't glorious all this time, but I met him that Saturday. I'd never met him before and my heart was in my throat. He came up to me and shook hands, so glad to be here with you. This is gonna be great. What a gentleman, what a charming person. And he strode right past me, took the hand of my lovely wife and said, oh sure, how wonderful to meet you, charmed I'm sure, and she just, her heart a little fluttered or hurt a little little hard, flooded or something flooded, I'm not sure. But anyway we met him then and over the years I would see, see him at shows and he remembered and recalled and I was with him Socially like he would be with anybody at any con con con that there was, and we were on a first-name basis and used to take my son with me to Chicago comedy was a teen and Stan would sit with us in the wedding room at the restaurant and talk to my son, adam, and Adam would talk to Stan it's not Mr Lee at Stan. And he sat there one night at the hotel restaurant and he looked over to Adam who had a book I've got over in. This book I'll bookshelf call the best of spider-man, the reprints of the black and white newspaper strips. And Stan said, adam, what are you reading? And he said well, your staff that you wrote In the reprints of the comics newspaper comics. Now there's Stan said, get it here. He took it and the autographed it and gave it back to him and smiles were this big Stan never charged a penny nest, never asked for anything. He greatly appreciated fandom. He was even one of the guests at Superman 1985 50th anniversary birthday party in Cleveland. I got picks of that too, if you're interested. So Stan was just you know, god love him just an old shoe, just like an extra neighbor, always surrounded, always charming and kind to everybody, even to the end, even when they were beating the living poo out of him at Comic-Con, his handlers in Kansas City, with people as I stand, write your name, stand, write your name next, next, next, just pushed him to keep the money coming in. And even through that he still was a Standup, straight guy and nothing but charming and wonderful.

Thomas: 27:00

Yeah, he was, he was a, he was a great guy, yeah, yeah. So let's see it, let's Think about this what is, what's your favorite Marvel comic or your favorite Marvel character? The draw.

Rick: 27:22

I'm sorting them all. My mind right now Probably the most requested and my favorite would be spider-man.

Thomas: 27:30

Of course, yeah. And Is there a character that you know? Is there a Marvel character? To never get requested that you want to draw?

Rick: 27:41

I love drawing Dr Strange. I've had a few requests, but there's seldom. And as I think, about what other Marvel characters it's really hard to say because I'm like a Original recipe guy, the 60s Marvel characters. By the time we got up to Conan I love Conan, that was my consolation prize from Marie you several Marvel. She said, oh, I'm so sorry, things didn't go well with Roy. Here's a stack of this week's books, including Conan, number one. Take that back to your hotel room. They'll keep you busy for a while. But I'm not sure that that. There's one that I haven't done that I really, really want to. I think I've had a chance to either that conventions or requests or commissions draw all the ones I really really wanted to that's great.

Thomas: 28:31

And Do you have a favorite Marvel artist other than yourself?

Rick: 28:37

Well, I got that news for it. I'm not my favorite Marvel artist, but you know, it's like the characters, it depends on my mood, because they've all planted seeds of inspiration for me. So, of course, kirby, of course, did go. Gil Kane strode both companies with DC and Marvel, as did Bernie Riteson and Barry Smith. Barry Smith may be one of my most favorite illustrators out of all of them, but it's hard to say, because they brought so much stand, brought so much to the talent pool at Marvel, and all those artists and co-creators are so inspirational. And To me to this day, demi gods.

Thomas: 29:30

Yeah, they are okay. So Is there any other a Marvel stories you can recollect?

Rick: 29:41

You know, I think one of the biggest moments in my Marvel Dome because I gave you the whole skinny on that and it was pretty skinny. As a matter of fact, I was invited to a Marvel party at Chicago Con and these are great little parties. They're out at the pool at night with big, giant ice sculptures and free this and free that and all the fun people that were there. And I spied a man that looked like Peter Falk, the actor you may remember, or you could Google Colombo and stop me if I told you this. Oh, maybe don't stop me, but I was walking across the, the Faye lines to go see this guy. He said maybe an inch or two shorter than me I think I'm five, six on a good day, five, seven, I don't know Shrinking rapidly and he stood there with his head cocked, just kind of nod and talk to people. It was Jack Kirby. Walked up to Jack Kirby and I said Mr Kirby and shook his hand and all the compliments and adulation came out pretty eloquently at that time what I learned from him how he entertained me, the indelible mark he made in comics before Marvel and at DC with the fourth world stuff he did. And the more I did that, the more he lowered his head and smiled. Just a very humble man. And at the end of me, showering him with all these accolades, he looked up at me and said oh, thank you, thank you, no, thank you. He said your dad's still alive. And I said yeah. He said should I talk to your dad? I said yeah. He said you were thanking him for all he gave up for. Yeah, sure, and he went on to how important he felt dad's were in kids' lives and I didn't know if he had a father or not, I don't know. Then he segwayed into Hell's Kitchen and being a kid during the depression and all this stuff, and when some went someplace in a Kirbyverse I never thought he'd go, but it was still him and he was still storytelling and I thought that was unexpected but an indelible encounter with him.

Thomas: 31:54

That is a great story, isn't?

Rick: 31:57

that odd, though, and that's something you would never expect.

Thomas: 32:00

I think that's a great way to end today's edition. Now, of course, the next edition. Let's talk about work other than the big two. So your independent work, your stuff, like that, and so we'll put a pin in that for next time let's do that. Thank you everyone for listening. Of course you can find rickstacycom right.

Rick: 32:31

Yeah, absolutely.

Thomas: 32:34

And, of course, multiversetonightcom for me. Go ahead, rick.

Rick: 32:39

Can I tease you a bit on the next chapter then? Yes, go ahead, Because the next chapter we're talking about other companies besides Marvel, and they were a handful too. I will take you to the Twilight Zone. There you go. Everybody knows that song.

Thomas: 32:58

Of course it's one of the most recognizable musical stings in history. So for Rick and myself, we'll see you in the next edition. Thanks, this has been production of multiversetonight, I'll be right 2023. All right Three all right oped Maria самого Usúlio. It does not pertain to the score.